--- On Mon, 10/17/11, andorprojex@yahoogroups.com <andorprojex@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
From: andorprojex@yahoogroups.com <andorprojex@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [andorprojex] Digest Number 3043
To: andorprojex@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, October 17, 2011, 7:17 PM
Andor Projex think tank Messages In This Digest (25 Messages) Messages - 1.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:19 am (PDT) - 2.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:20 am (PDT) - 3a.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:04 am (PDT) The collective is lost in self-masturbation and, in it's pseudo-revolutionar y spirit, is cheering itself on to some kind of illusion that by bitching at mom and dad they will grow up and mature into self-sustaining entities. Why should mom and dad do anything for the kids who whine and moan on all the high technology provided by mom and dad but can't yet come up with something more sustainable than living on the hand-outs of others who work for mom and dad? At the recent Indy OCCUPY we marched through the nearly empty streets chanting, "We are the 99%" on a Saturday when most of the businesses and all the banks were closed, making a mighty racket and not even a dent in the system. What about the collective's system? Does one even exist? Those of us who have been in the trenches (in my case, since 1971) trying to form worker collectives, cooperatively stewarded sanctuaries and ecovillages, and group fund-raising ventures are NOT finding many kids willing to do the actual work together to co-create these things. We can get them into the street and on the Internet in mass protests but will we see them evolve to a point of actual self-sustainability or are they just bitching and complaining? Time will tell - LOL --- In andorprojex@ yahoogroups. com, Rick H Parker <rickparker22@ ...> wrote: > > > > Some will seek out a great decider when they don't agree with the > collective and as we have seen, there are wannabe great deciders more > then happy to oblige. > > Rick H Parker > > > On 10/16/2011 8:51 AM, greenspider wrote: > > See rick, even HERE some do not or will not participate in collective > > decision making process because some people just NEED a leader, they > > wouldn't know what to do if they didn't have a gov't telling them how > > to behave.... > - 3b.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:15 am (PDT) Hierarchy? Come now, without me creating this group and feeding it and maintaining it for over 8 years, getting nothing for myself in return, you all wouldn't even have a place to bitch. I stepped back to see if you would do the actual work on your own but I see that is not on your agenda. I just saw the same thing in OCCUPY Indy where speaker after speaker used the people's microphone to rant and rave at the world, each other, and at mom and dad (who were no where around) boring the hell out of those of us who came to share the message of self-sustaining lifestyles and a life BEYOND the artificial systems that are falling down like those wigger pants which reveal boxer shorts. --- In andorprojex@ yahoogroups. com, greenspider <wetstonze@. ..> wrote: > > .......Some appealed to the Hierarchy instead of getting involved in the > collective decision making process-Rick H Parker.... > > See rick, even HERE some do not or will not participate in collective decision making process because some people just NEED a leader, they wouldn't know what to do if they didn't have a gov't telling them how to behave.... > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > - 3c.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:04 pm (PDT)
Yahoo Groups has a built in Hierarchy, all the power is vested in the
group's creator. You are the one with your finger on the shut em up
button that is why they appealed to you. How does it feel to be Mom and
God all rolled up in one? =-O
Don't underestimate the power of a pissed off mob. A couple of hundred
year ago a mob of white men pissed off over taxes defeated a super power.
You call your experiment a failure because the group was developing its
own directive? You cannot have it both ways.
Agreed! Many have been brain washed into believing government is
something done to you, not something you do. Lately I been getting
"advice" from people that think they got it all figured out, in a nut
shell, they are telling me I need to learn now to shut up and submit.
Rick H Parker
On 10/17/2011 9:15 AM, Patti wrote:
> Hierarchy? Come now, without me creating this group and feeding it and maintaining it for over 8 years, getting nothing for myself in return, you all wouldn't even have a place to bitch. I stepped back to see if you would do the actual work on your own but I see that is not on your agenda. I just saw the same thing in OCCUPY Indy where speaker after speaker used the people's microphone to rant and rave at the world, each other, and at mom and dad (who were no where around) boring the hell out of those of us who came to share the message of self-sustaining lifestyles and a life BEYOND the artificial systems that are falling down like those wigger pants which reveal boxer shorts.
- 3d.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:17 pm (PDT)
You want to make fishermen out of all of them .... that is a tall order.
Rick H Parker
On 10/17/2011 9:04 AM, Patti wrote:
> We can get them into the street and on the Internet in mass protests but will we see them evolve to a point of actual self-sustainability or are they just bitching and complaining? Time will tell - LOL
- 4a.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:25 am (PDT) sustainable systems and communities think tank - yup, that's why this group was formed and maintained and it would be really nice if folk would share information about that instead of just bitching about how mom and dad are running the non-sustainable systems that are well on their way to collapse ... my CELSS testbed is doing pretty well here on Faerie Hill but the global CELSS is clearly in major decline ... so, how do we take what I've learned in the Faerie Hill ecoark and my previous experiment with the Lothlorien Biostar and do something with it other than my just sitting her inside it typing away at a solar powered computer and beaming it up to a solar powered satellite using a solar powered modem? Inquiring minds would like to know ... --- In andorprojex@ yahoogroups. com, Jerrywpar <Jerrywpar@. ..> wrote: > > > If so, I'm out of here. I'm looking for more sustainability here on Earth. Come to think of it, isn't Earth the ultimate CELSS? If we can't make it work with everything we have to work with here, I don't see much hope on another planet. > > Best, > > Jerry > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chad Lupkes <chadlupkes@ ...> > To: andorprojex < andorprojex@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Thu, Oct 13, 2011 7:20 pm > Subject: Re: [andorprojex] ows > > > > > So the only topic of conversation allowed on this list is about the Controlled Ecological Life Support System? > > > Chad > > > On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Bobby Yates Emory <liberty1@.. .> wrote: > > > > > Cindy, > > Which component of a CELSS does Kevin's experience help us design? > > Bobby > > > > On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:22 AM, sugarmaple77200 <cccrandster@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > excellent blog re sustainable world by kevin powell > > http://www.kevinpow ell.net/blog/ 2011/10/occupy- wall-street- the-revolution- will-be-multipli ed/ > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Toward freedom, > > Bobby Yates Emory > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Chad Lupkes - http://chadlupkes. blogspot. com > > 46dems.com, kcdems.org, wa-demchairs. org > seattlewebcrafters. com > - 4b.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:11 am (PDT) Thanks, that is what I was lead to believe when I joined the group. Thanks for all of your research into sustainability and I wish I could be more help in the think tank part, but I am more problem oriented and tend to focus on one issue at a time and easily get overwhelmed with the greater picture. Thanks again, Jerry. -----Original Message----- From: Patti < odonata02@yahoo. com> To: andorprojex < andorprojex@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Mon, Oct 17, 2011 7:25 am Subject: [andorprojex] Re: ows sustainable systems and communities think tank - yup, that's why this group was formed and maintained and it would be really nice if folk would share information about that instead of just bitching about how mom and dad are running the non-sustainable systems that are well on their way to collapse ... my CELSS testbed is doing pretty well here on Faerie Hill but the global CELSS is clearly in major decline ... so, how do we take what I've learned in the Faerie Hill ecoark and my previous experiment with the Lothlorien Biostar and do something with it other than my just sitting her inside it typing away at a solar powered computer and beaming it up to a solar powered satellite using a solar powered modem? Inquiring minds would like to know ... --- In andorprojex@ yahoogroups. com, Jerrywpar <Jerrywpar@. ..> wrote: > > > If so, I'm out of here. I'm looking for more sustainability here on Earth. Come to think of it, isn't Earth the ultimate CELSS? If we can't make it work with everything we have to work with here, I don't see much hope on another planet. > > Best, > > Jerry > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chad Lupkes <chadlupkes@ ...> > To: andorprojex < andorprojex@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Thu, Oct 13, 2011 7:20 pm > Subject: Re: [andorprojex] ows > > > > > So the only topic of conversation allowed on this list is about the Controlled Ecological Life Support System? > > > Chad > > > On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Bobby Yates Emory <liberty1@.. .> wrote: > > > > > Cindy, > > Which component of a CELSS does Kevin's experience help us design? > > Bobby > > > > On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:22 AM, sugarmaple77200 <cccrandster@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > excellent blog re sustainable world by kevin powell > > http://www.kevinpow ell.net/blog/ 2011/10/occupy- wall-street- the-revolution- will-be-multipli ed/ > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Toward freedom, > > Bobby Yates Emory > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Chad Lupkes - http://chadlupkes. blogspot. com > > 46dems.com, kcdems.org, wa-demchairs. org > seattlewebcrafters. com > ------------ --------- --------- ------ Yahoo! Groups Links - 4c.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:39 am (PDT) We have a real need for people that can focus on one thing at a time here on the Andor think tank, Jerry. Just pick the area of most interest to you and see what you can develop. Let us coordinators figure how to mix your ideas into the whole CELSS. I personally spend most time working on food production. Of course, for year round use I have had to investigate greenhouses. Keeping warm and having growing lights requires study of energy systems. Still I could use help in all three of these areas keeping up to date with other research. Guess I don't feel a need to spend much effort on social problems until we have an actual need to put people together. Hank in OR West Coast Ecovillage/CELSS Planners http://www.facebook .com/groups/ 168117373276247/ . ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerrywpar To: andorprojex@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [andorprojex] Re: ows Thanks, that is what I was lead to believe when I joined the group. Thanks for all of your research into sustainability and I wish I could be more help in the think tank part, but I am more problem oriented and tend to focus on one issue at a time and easily get overwhelmed with the greater picture. Thanks again, Jerry. -----Original Message----- From: Patti < odonata02@yahoo. com> To: andorprojex < andorprojex@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Mon, Oct 17, 2011 7:25 am Subject: [andorprojex] Re: ows sustainable systems and communities think tank - yup, that's why this group was formed and maintained and it would be really nice if folk would share information about that instead of just bitching about how mom and dad are running the non-sustainable systems that are well on their way to collapse ... my CELSS testbed is doing pretty well here on Faerie Hill but the global CELSS is clearly in major decline ... so, how do we take what I've learned in the Faerie Hill ecoark and my previous experiment with the Lothlorien Biostar and do something with it other than my just sitting her inside it typing away at a solar powered computer and beaming it up to a solar powered satellite using a solar powered modem? Inquiring minds would like to know ... --- In andorprojex@ yahoogroups. com, Jerrywpar <Jerrywpar@. ..> wrote: > > > If so, I'm out of here. I'm looking for more sustainability here on Earth. Come to think of it, isn't Earth the ultimate CELSS? If we can't make it work with everything we have to work with here, I don't see much hope on another planet. > > Best, > > Jerry > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chad Lupkes <chadlupkes@ ...> > To: andorprojex < andorprojex@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Thu, Oct 13, 2011 7:20 pm > Subject: Re: [andorprojex] ows > > > > > So the only topic of conversation allowed on this list is about the Controlled Ecological Life Support System? > > > Chad > > > On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Bobby Yates Emory <liberty1@.. .> wrote: > > > > > Cindy, > > Which component of a CELSS does Kevin's experience help us design? > > Bobby > > > > On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:22 AM, sugarmaple77200 <cccrandster@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > excellent blog re sustainable world by kevin powell > > http://www.kevinpow ell.net/blog/ 2011/10/occupy- wall-street- the-revolution- will-be-multipli ed/ > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Toward freedom, > > Bobby Yates Emory > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Chad Lupkes - http://chadlupkes. blogspot. com > > 46dems.com, kcdems.org, wa-demchairs. org > seattlewebcrafters. com > ------------ --------- --------- ------ Yahoo! Groups Links - 4d.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:03 pm (PDT) -----Original Message----- From: Jerrywpar < Jerrywpar@aol. com> To: andorprojex < andorprojex@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Mon, Oct 17, 2011 10:13 am Subject: Re: [andorprojex] Re: ows Thanks, that is what I was lead to believe when I joined the group. Thanks for all of your research into sustainability and I wish I could be more help in the think tank part, but I am more problem oriented and tend to focus on one issue at a time and easily get overwhelmed with the greater picture. Thanks again, Jerry. -----Original Message----- From: Patti < odonata02@yahoo. com> To: andorprojex < andorprojex@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Mon, Oct 17, 2011 7:25 am Subject: [andorprojex] Re: ows sustainable systems and communities think tank - yup, that's why this group was formed and maintained and it would be really nice if folk would share information about that instead of just bitching about how mom and dad are running the non-sustainable systems that are well on their way to collapse ... my CELSS testbed is doing pretty well here on Faerie Hill but the global CELSS is clearly in major decline ... so, how do we take what I've learned in the Faerie Hill ecoark and my previous experiment with the Lothlorien Biostar and do something with it other than my just sitting her inside it typing away at a solar powered computer and beaming it up to a solar powered satellite using a solar powered modem? Inquiring minds would like to know ... --- In andorprojex@ yahoogroups. com, Jerrywpar <Jerrywpar@. ..> wrote: > > > If so, I'm out of here. I'm looking for more sustainability here on Earth. Come to think of it, isn't Earth the ultimate CELSS? If we can't make it work with everything we have to work with here, I don't see much hope on another planet. > > Best, > > Jerry > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chad Lupkes <chadlupkes@ ...> > To: andorprojex < andorprojex@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Thu, Oct 13, 2011 7:20 pm > Subject: Re: [andorprojex] ows > > > > > So the only topic of conversation allowed on this list is about the Controlled Ecological Life Support System? > > > Chad > > > On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Bobby Yates Emory <liberty1@.. .> wrote: > > > > > Cindy, > > Which component of a CELSS does Kevin's experience help us design? > > Bobby > > > > On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:22 AM, sugarmaple77200 <cccrandster@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > excellent blog re sustainable world by kevin powell > > http://www.kevinpow ell.net/blog/ 2011/10/occupy- wall-street- the-revolution- will-be-multipli ed/ > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Toward freedom, > > Bobby Yates Emory > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Chad Lupkes - http://chadlupkes. blogspot. com > > 46dems.com, kcdems.org, wa-demchairs. org > seattlewebcrafters. com > ------------ --------- --------- ------ Yahoo! Groups Links - 5.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:35 am (PDT)
We can blame mom and dad for all our aches and ills
We can blame the men in power for making chills and pills
We can blame the church and government until we've had our fill
We can blame the corporations in voices loud and shrill
We can blame each other - for doing what we do
Complain about the world and how we're made the fool
Hide behind the social mask when all signs point to you
Complaining goes nowhere when there is something else to do
Complaining goes nowhere when there is something else to do
Hide behind the social mask when all signs point to you
Time for nature's reality - time to ground to earth
Time to pay attention to the makings of our birth
Time for practicality and the plight of the withered soil
Time to compost all our waste - for the seed we must toil
Turn machines to the task of closing the sacred hoop
What goes out must come in - including the toxic goop
Complaining goes nowhere when there is something else to do
Hide behind the social mask when all signs point to you
Time to wake from madness - choose another course
Solar panels on every rooftop - gardens in every court
Time to plant tomatoes - in a pot on the porch
Time to turn into the green - time to get in touch
With the bright and shining future - healing the damage we've done
To the blue and green planet - third marble from the sun
Complaining goes nowhere when there is something else to do
Hide behind the social mask when all signs point to you
When we've finally made it - turned back the tide of fear
Freed ourselves of monsters - wiped away the tears
World held in common - no nationality
No artificial borders - you against me
Arms into plowshares - greed put to rest
Plant the planet forest - share what is best
- 6.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:36 am (PDT)
We are sentient and incarnate beings of the Living Universe personified, spiritual and physical stewards and healers of damaged internal and external environments. We believe that the purpose of life is to manifest in ever more diverse and complex forms, absorbing and transforming the environment in order to create and maintain a "web of life" throughout the known and unknown Universe. We celebrate the inborn, inherent, and immanent Divinity of Nature.
As Stewards of Faerie Hill , it is our path and purpose to nurture Divine Nature by establishing and stewarding sacred sanctuaries for life - consecrated ground, holy havens, wildlife refuges, genetic preserves and parks for flora and fauna, tree temples, sacred groves, eco-villages and arks for nature - where we might reclaim, regreen, replant, restore, and regenerate the Web of Life, wherever it might be torn.
We recognize that the names by which diverse people call the Living Universe personified, and the customs by which we might celebrate, are many and varied. We recognize and honor each non-violent custom as a valid path within and as a part of the whole - all that ever was, is, and will be - infinite and eternal, manifest and un-manifest, animate and inanimate, mortal and immortal.
We pledge that we shall not discriminate against any person or group of people based on their skin color, race, gender, genetics, sexual orientation, national origin, cultural background, religious or political affiliation, or other circumstance of birth and upbringing.
Furthermore, we pledge that we will neither cause nor participate in any public slander or verbal attacking of any other member or members for their traditional and/or non traditional beliefs and practices regarding personal and interpersonal family structure and intimate relationships: monogamous, polyamorous, or otherwise.
We respect the natural right of each Steward of Faerie Hill to personally practice, promote, and offer instruction and/or apprenticeships in non-violent and non-polluting arts and sciences, sacred crafts, and spiritual magic, recognizing these as essential manifestations and valid additions to the unfolding of the Living Universe and that knowledge is to be shared and passed on rather than hoarded.
We pledge that we will not steal, abuse, or do violence to common or private property, in all ways respecting the rights of the co-stewards and/or owner, as the case may be. Neither shall we claim private ownership of the ground upon which we build personal dwellings, even though the dwelling itself and the contents within are private property.
As Stewards of Faerie Hill we pledge to embrace and uphold this Creed and to avoid violating the environment or its inhabitants through inconsiderate, unnecessary or reckless verbal and/or physical violence or pollution: chemical, mechanical, biological, radioactive, or otherwise. We pledge to uphold the land use policies set by the Faerie Hill Steward Council, composed of the Stewards of Faerie Hill . We realize that our Stewardship may be revoked by the Steward Council if we repeatedly violate this pledge.
- 7.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:37 am (PDT)
$200/month = 1 household: land payment, property insurance, land taxes, group tools/workshop access, water access/use, use of community showers/sauna/ laundry/composti ng privies, access to community library
20 households = $4000/month group input
Group stewarded (land and facilities):
1) all wild land, gardens, orchards, forest, ponds, wetlands (outside and between homestead circles)
2) access roads, parking, and paths
3) community composters/privies
4) community showers/sauna/ laundry/wetlands
5) community tools, workshop, and fuel supply
6) community electrical grid: PV/wind
Household stewarded:
1) homestead circle (99' in diameter)
2) hobbit home
3) personal electric: PV/wind
4) private gardens
Notes on households:
1) homestead circles are leased for $200/month or $2000/year paid up front
2) no more than 7 people per household
3) lease cannot be transferred to anyone other than the parent organization
4) names of legal adults may be added to the lease upon approval of the council
5) non-payment of lease equals a violation of the lease equals loss of lease
6) hobbit home designs must be approved by the council before construction
7) no two or more homestead circles may touch each other (at least 10' between)
- 8a.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:38 am (PDT)
After spending years living off the electric, phone, cable, sewer, and natural gas grids, I can say that there is nothing primitive about it. In fact, with our relatively small 1.7KW photovoltaic array and a tiny 800W wind turbine, my wife and I enjoy a very high level civilization without worry about paying large bills to utility companies or experiencing difficulties when the grid experiences a breakdown. We have a back-up gasoline powered generator for battery charging when the sun hasn't peaked through the clouds for days and the wind is not blowing. This could be upgraded to a a biofuel (alcohol or bio-diesel) generator or more PV panels or a larger wind turbine. Electric power is stored in a battery bank consisting of 8 deep cycle floor scrubber batteries, the power delivered to standard 120V power circuits by a pair of inverters. On the environmental end, we aren't contributing to air pollution and mercury poisoning from coal fired power plants, radiation leaks from nuclear plants, spills from overflowing sewage treatment facilities, or the need to maintain long power lines and tree-free corridors through nature.
We live a fully modern high-tech life with 2 laptop computers and a sophisticated satellite dish and modem, satellite TV with DVR recording/playback, plus a full scale music recording studio with piles of synthesizers, advanced processing, power amps, and electric and acoustic instruments galore! We use cell phones (2), one of them being a smart phone. We have 2 MP3 players and a massive music library. Of course we have a blender and mixer in the kitchen, refrigerator, sewing machines (2), power tools, lighting, fans for moving air, and a water pressure pump with standard kitchen sink, bathroom sink, and shower/tub unit. We don't have an air conditioner or microwave oven but we could have that if we wanted by simply adding a few more PV panels to the existing arrays. We have a composting toilet and a gray water recycling system in an attached greenhouse section which also grows food while cleaning up the waste water. We capture and store rain water and have a connection to a commercial water source if need be ($20/month).
Our 2000 sq. ft. home is about 50% passive solar heated, super insulated. We use two on-the-wall propane heaters and a propane kitchen stove/oven and have a built-in fireplace in the bedroom. Our propane bill is about $1200/year. We have a deck out back with a 10 mile view from the hilltop. We built it ourselves, bit by bit over several years, spending no more than $50,000 total, a fraction of the cost of a standard home. We could have done better. Improvement can be made. That's why we built it, to learn how to do it better as well as to provide us with a nice place to live without the hassles and harassments of a suburban lifestyle. That kind of living, including hospitals, library, banks, vet, hardware, grocery stores, schools, churches, gas stations, party stores, restaurants, and everything one might want from a corporate lifestyle is only 10 minutes down the road.
We are not isolated nor disconnected from regular society. We just don't have to participate in it very often if we don't choose to. We get to garden organically, culture fruit and nut trees, eat wild berries, pick wild herbs, hunt mushrooms, walk through the woods, lay in the yard naked. We dug 6 mini-ponds and are surrounded by frogs (several types), dragonflies, butterflies (including the monarch), wild bees for pollination, birds is abundance, and there are deer to watch in the fields in the early morning and at twilight. We can see the stars! We have 16 acres, 6 of them woods (with a spring) and the rest in fields which we are mostly allowing to go back to nature. About 1 acre is mowed. We paid $1000 down and are purchasing this on a land contract, about $400/month including our land/property taxes. That's off-grid life on Faerie Hill. We welcome people to join is. If you are interested, please ask us how you might get involved.
- 8b.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:32 am (PDT) Great review. Thanks for bring us up to date on your project. If even a small percentage of the ows protester did half of what you have done there would be a massive shift in corporate America. To learn how to beat the system is why I joined this list and started my own group. Hank in OR West Coast Ecovillage Planners http://www.facebook .com/groups/ 168117373276247/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patti" < odonata02@yahoo. com> To: < andorprojex@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 7:38 AM Subject: [andorprojex] Off Grid Living - an advanced lifestyle > After spending years living off the electric, phone, cable, sewer, and > natural gas grids, I can say that there is nothing primitive about it. In > fact, with our relatively small 1.7KW photovoltaic array and a tiny 800W > wind turbine, my wife and I enjoy a very high level civilization without > worry about paying large bills to utility companies or experiencing > difficulties when the grid experiences a breakdown. We have a back-up > gasoline powered generator for battery charging when the sun hasn't peaked > through the clouds for days and the wind is not blowing. This could be > upgraded to a a biofuel (alcohol or bio-diesel) generator or more PV > panels or a larger wind turbine. Electric power is stored in a battery > bank consisting of 8 deep cycle floor scrubber batteries, the power > delivered to standard 120V power circuits by a pair of inverters. On the > environmental end, we aren't contributing to air pollution and mercury > poisoning from coal fired power plants, radiation leaks from nuclear > plants, spills from overflowing sewage treatment facilities, or the need > to maintain long power lines and tree-free corridors through nature. > > We live a fully modern high-tech life with 2 laptop computers and a > sophisticated satellite dish and modem, satellite TV with DVR > recording/playback, plus a full scale music recording studio with piles > of synthesizers, advanced processing, power amps, and electric and > acoustic instruments galore! We use cell phones (2), one of them being a > smart phone. We have 2 MP3 players and a massive music library. Of course > we have a blender and mixer in the kitchen, refrigerator, sewing machines > (2), power tools, lighting, fans for moving air, and a water pressure pump > with standard kitchen sink, bathroom sink, and shower/tub unit. We don't > have an air conditioner or microwave oven but we could have that if we > wanted by simply adding a few more PV panels to the existing arrays. We > have a composting toilet and a gray water recycling system in an attached > greenhouse section which also grows food while cleaning up the waste > water. We capture and store rain water and have a connection to a > commercial water source if need be ($20/month). > > Our 2000 sq. ft. home is about 50% passive solar heated, super insulated. > We use two on-the-wall propane heaters and a propane kitchen stove/oven > and have a built-in fireplace in the bedroom. Our propane bill is about > $1200/year. We have a deck out back with a 10 mile view from the hilltop. > We built it ourselves, bit by bit over several years, spending no more > than $50,000 total, a fraction of the cost of a standard home. We could > have done better. Improvement can be made. That's why we built it, to > learn how to do it better as well as to provide us with a nice place to > live without the hassles and harassments of a suburban lifestyle. That > kind of living, including hospitals, library, banks, vet, hardware, > grocery stores, schools, churches, gas stations, party stores, > restaurants, and everything one might want from a corporate lifestyle is > only 10 minutes down the road. > > We are not isolated nor disconnected from regular society. We just don't > have to participate in it very often if we don't choose to. We get to > garden organically, culture fruit and nut trees, eat wild berries, pick > wild herbs, hunt mushrooms, walk through the woods, lay in the yard naked. > We dug 6 mini-ponds and are surrounded by frogs (several types), > dragonflies, butterflies (including the monarch), wild bees for > pollination, birds is abundance, and there are deer to watch in the fields > in the early morning and at twilight. We can see the stars! We have 16 > acres, 6 of them woods (with a spring) and the rest in fields which we are > mostly allowing to go back to nature. About 1 acre is mowed. We paid $1000 > down and are purchasing this on a land contract, about $400/month > including our land/property taxes. That's off-grid life on Faerie Hill. We > welcome people to join is. If you are interested, please ask us how you > might get involved. > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > - 9a.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:40 am (PDT)
What if you, your parents, grandparents, great grandparents, and maybe ancestors further back. were told a really big LIE, one they based their life and counted on to be true? If this LIE unraveled before your eyes and all that you thought was true collapsed and crumbled, leaving you and your friends and family in dire straights, what would you do? Would you suicide? Would you attempt to keep living like you did even though it is an impossibility? Or, would you learn how to adapt?
ADAPTATION is a big word for some folks. My thesaurus defines it as an alteration, adjustment, acclimatization, modification, change. The BIG LIE says that a corporate controlled industrial civilization is sustainable, that it can continue to rape nature to provide us with life support with no consequences to be faced, that it is the best and only proper way to live. It is a LIE designed by the industrialists so that we would buy and consume their products and work in their factories. The LIE is currently being exposed by time and nature.
The corporate controlled industrial civilization is crashing, running up against the wall of population growth, diminishing natural resources, environmental destruction, and internal corruption. Rome is falling and those who relied on it are in dire straights. The truth is that no stimulus package is large enough to replace what we're losing and restore what we once knew. There are too many forces converging for that. Rather, we should learn how to adapt, how to acclimatize to our emerging situation. We don't have much time to act. The whole planet is experiencing the same thing. We are not alone in our realization that we have been lied to.
The consequences of past actions are knocking on at the door. Look around you. Read the news. We see wild weather, polluted waters and tainted air, and a collapsing economy built on non-sustainable practices. We see war, murder, rape, pedophilia, and dying oceans, melting glaciers, rising waters. We're not stupid. We can read the signs. Yet, most of us do not know what we can do, how we can get out of this mess, and what should we build in place of it. We have gathered here to seek (and possibly find) viable solutions. We did not come here to argue the fine points, to divide ourselves with political proclamations, or to revel in the horror of what is coming down. We leave those topics to another time and place. Right now it is the appropriate moment to consider our options.
First, let us consider what we need for basic life support and how we might provide for ourselves and our family and friends, maybe even our neighborhood, community, nation, and the whole world. Yes, its good to think globally but we need to act locally and the most local place to start is with one's own life. Let's take a quick survey:
1) Who here walks instead of drives down the road?
2) Who here composts their garbage?
3) Who here composts their toilet waste?
4) Who here recycles their wash water?
5) Who here plants trees, berry bushes, wildflowers?
6) Who here grows an organic food garden?
7) Who here harnesses the wind?
8) Who here harvests the sun?
9) Who here knows how to maintain their health with natural foods, herbal medicines, and massage?
There is so much we can do. Yet, before we delve deeper into the alternatives we should take a bit of time exploring some of the things we can do to conserve energy in our homes:
Efficiency is the key here. If we leave the lights on or keep the TV plugged in (even when off), we are using more than we need. Did you know that almost every electronic plugged-in appliance is draining power even though it is not turned on? It is called a "phantom load". Lots of phantom loads add up to a large steady power drain. Plug those electronics into a plug strip and turn off the plug strip when the appliance is not being used.
Turn off the lights you are not currently using. Do you really need to light the whole room with a big bulb when reading a book or would a small high intensity reading light conserve more power? Standard incandescent bulbs waste power in the form of heat. Compact fluorescent bulbs make less heat and are thus considerably more efficient than incandescents - unless the incandescent is used for a short time (like in a closet) because fluorescents take a bit more power to "fire up". The most efficient lighting to date is a sulfur light. These use microwaves to stimulate sulfur to produce light. These bulbs pump out light like miniature suns. The light from one bulb is channeled to other locations via fiber optics. So far, these are very expensive and are not available on the open market. The next efficient light is an LED (light emitting diode). There are some great LED flashlights on the market these days and the screw in version are just starting to penetrate the mass marktplace. LEDS do not get hot, last almost "forever", are hard to break, and use very little power. In my opinion, LED lighting is the way to go.
In a normal home, lighting takes considerable power but refrigeration takes much more. Super insulate the refrigerator with 6" more insulation. Put the compressor on top so that the heat from it rises away from the refrigerator, not up through the cold box like standard models. With a front opening door, every time the door opens the cold falls out. Use a model which opens like a chest freezer. The most energy efficient location for a refrigerator (in the northern hemisphere) is on the north (shaded) wall of the home close to or in contact with the ground (which is 55 degrees F). Do not put a refrigerator where the sun can shine on it!
Also, during the winter when water turns to ice, fill some jugs, let them freeze, then put them inside your refrigerator.
AC (alternating current) engines/motors/ compressors, including those in refrigerators, are not as efficient as DC (direct current) models. DC refrigerators usually operate at 12 volts and can be run directly off a battery bank, which can be charged by solar electric panels (photovoltaics) , wind generators, and microhydro units (which usually produce DC power). The refrigerators mentioned above are "compression cycle" machines. They are more efficient than the propane fired "evaporation cycle" refrigerators found in RVs and in many off-grid homes. Solid state refrigeration can be accomplished with Peltier Junction chips (some coolers which plug into cigarette lighter sockets are available) but the are not very efficient. Ultrasonic refrigeration (very efficient) is possible but not yet available on the open market.
Electric stoves, ovens, hair dryers, plug-in heaters, base-board heaters, hot plates, or anything which uses electricity to heat a coil of wire are very inefficient. Gas stoves are more efficient. Wood stoves work if you have a steady wood supply. Yet, wood smoke is also polluting and you need to plant more than you burn just to keep up. Solar energy is free. Consider your options. If you need a clothes dryer, a propane or natural gas dryer is better than an electric one. Try hanging the clothing in the sun on a line. It will save you much power.
Room heating should not be electric. A well-designed solar home that is super insulated can get by quite well with a woodstove or a small propane or natural gas powered heater to augment the sun's power when it is not shining on the home. Super insulation is the key here. So is using an "air lock" hallway (with two doors) to keep the cold from getting in. Air conditioners are a huge drain on power. It is best to use the coolness of the earth itself (55 degrees F.) to cool your home. It is easy to construct a simple system of parallel pipes which run through the ground and into your home. Outside air is drawn in through the pipes and is cooled by the earth. The moisture in the outside air condenses in these pipes to produce distilled water. This is called an "air well". During the summer, the home should be shaded by trees. Homes which are bermed or built into the ground (earth sheltered) are easier to cool and heat.
Water heating can be made more efficient by switching to an on-demand tankless style water heater which provides a steady stream of hot water for as long as you keep the faucet open and there is fuel to power it. There is running out of water because the tank is empty and no need to waste power keeping a tank of hot water waiting for when you want it. Tankless heaters make hot water as it is used and are available in propane and natural gas models. Some brands have a solar connected model where the tankless doesn't turn on if the incoming water from the solar collector is already hot enough. Enterprising individuals have turned their old tank style heater into a solar water heater by stripping off the outer casing and insulation, painting the core tank stove black, and exposing it to the sun inside an insulated box with a glass cover made of an old shower door. Other folks have used coiled hose, PEX tubing or, if you can afford it, parallel runs of copper pipe.
Water use can be reduced in may ways. Don't let the faucet run when not in use. Use misting shower heads and the ones which have a built-in button to push to turn off the flow while scrubbing up. Wash water, if not contaminated by harsh chemicals and old medicines poured down the drain or by toilet water, can be piped into the garden to keep it watered instead of down the drain, overburdening the aging sewage treatment infrastructure or filling the septic tank. Other folks are recycling their water inside greenhouses attached to their house, also acting as passive solar space heaters. Wash water is also called gray water. Gray water should not be mixed with the water which leaves your toilet bowl. This is called black water. Gray water is sometimes used to flush toilets. Yet, is the flush toilet such a great invention? Consider a composting toilet. With one of those, coupled with a gray water system, you can not only disconnect from the sewer lines and stop discharging into United States waters, you also end up with rich compost for the flower garden.
Cooking should be as efficient as possible. Solar box ovens (insulated boxes with black interiors, a piece of thermal glass on the front, and a reflector to focus more sunlight into the box) work great as long as the sun is shining - even in the winter! Electric stoves should be avoided. If you must use electricity for cooking, a microwave oven is more efficient than an electric stove because it cooks faster. Natural gas or propane stoves are much better. Steamed vegetables have more vitamins than over-boiled ones and steaming saves a lot of power. The more raw food we eat the less cooking is needed and the healthier we become.
In the electronics world, small is better. A laptop computer uses far less power than a desktop model. A small screened TV is more efficient than an large one. AN MP3 players uses a tiny amount of power compared to a CD player. Choose your appliances, electronics, and tools based on efficiency as well as performance. Do you need your a VCR in your home or would it be more fun to watch a movie with others in the community shelter? At the very least, turn off the lights when they are not being used! Conservation starts with awareness. If we are going to adapt to the changes we have to start by learning to conserve nature's gifts. Remember: the more power we use the more power we have to produce.
We're not trying to live like primitives here. We value a high level of peaceful and sustainable civilization. We simply realize that we can no longer be supported by big business must now adapt to the changing situation. Conservation on all levels is important. We need to do more with less. We need to plan ahead. We need to take control of the situation and show our neighbors how we did it. We need to step outside of the box, dare to be different, and take personal responsibility for providing ourselves with life support, including the energy we use.
By now I hope you know that the grid, as it is currently constructed, is not capable of handling the growing demand for energy. Huge storms bring the grid to the ground. Rebuild is expensive. Rates are raised. Fuel sources are hard to find and exploit. On top of that, many water delivery and sewage treatment systems are old, antiquated, breaking down. The industrial level infrastructure is in bad shape. Much of the groundwater is either tainted with industrial and agricultural chemicals or has been or is being depleted. Drought is becoming endemic in many regions. Deserts are spreading.
Of course we wonder what we can do besides conserve and recycle our resources. We need answers. Yet, while we may learn from others, the most important thing is to implement what we learn on a personal level, to the best of our ability. We need to take personal responsibility rather than wait for our substitute parents (big government and big business) to do it for us. Remember, Rome is in steep decline and cannot afford to keep us all alive. In the Empire's eyes, more and more people are becoming expendable. The support net is frayed and torn. The mothership is sinking. There are not enough lifeboats.
We need to build backyard arks, life supporting waste recycling greenhouses, and renewable power systems. We need to build cooperative networks of friends and family, cooperative buying clubs so we can get those things we cannot produce ourselves or get from our neighbors - at a good price, below retail. We can learn, once again, how to barter, trade, and swap, or simply give our excess to those in need. We need to start our own power production companies, organic farms, building materials recycling centers, natural healthcare and disease prevention sanctuaries, and encourage our local and regional governments to use their political clout to bless and promote them.
We need to get the media aware of the situation and working for the people and not the BIG LIE. We need to put ourselves to work, pool resources, teach classes, get personally involved in the school system, upgrading it so that our children learn what is useful, not just what big government and big business wants them to know. Practical skills need to be shared. Grandmothers and grandfathers need to be questioned and asked to explain. Folk knowledge needs to be recovered, recorded, and made into instructional programs we can run on the Internet. We need art which shows us a positive sustainable future, pictures of a re-greened environment, people living sustainable ecovillage lifestyles, energy efficient long distant mass transport bullet trains, electric vehicles for local travel, bike lanes, walking paths, a rewriting of zoning ordinances to allow home scale businesses.
I'm not suggesting that we get rid of big business and it's industrial prowness and employment opportunities. That would be foolish. I, for one, enjoy and thrive in a high level of civilization. I just want to have more control over my life and help big business clean up it's act. Every watt I produce is one they don't have to. Every vegetable I grow and chicken I raise does not have to be produced on a factory farm. Every drop of water I catch in my rain barrel and cistern is another which I don't need to purchase for the utilities. I can dig mini-ponds in my yard and line them with recycled advertising tarps, maybe raise some fish, build a composter from an recycled plastic barrel, a solar air heater from aluminum cans, and run my gray water into the garden so that I don't overburden the public sewer system and treatment plant. There is so much we can do, alone and together.
Let's take a short break and come back to this energy issue and discuss how we might produce our own. We'll also revisit the topic of helping each other out, working together cooperatively, and building sustainable community. Get up and stretch. Take a breather. Relieve yourself and wonder where it is going to and whether or not there is a better way to use our wastes. While you are at it, consider where the power we are currently using comes from.
- 9b.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:15 am (PDT) I have a question? Evidently there will be very few people who will have the necessary skills to run a 50% efficient CELSS all on their own. To make such a project a reasonable success, there must be at least a village with quite a few people having diverse skills (100 people?). I wonder whether NASA is conducting studies in group dynamics? Such information will be invaluable for setting up space habs. NASA could invest money in creating a 50% efficient eco-village to see how matters pan out. (It is worth keeping in mind that many tribal communities worldwide are already off grid and self sufficient - basically because they have few needs). Regards, Selvaraj On 17 October 2011 20:09, Patti < odonata02@yahoo. com> wrote: > ** > > > What if you, your parents, grandparents, great grandparents, and maybe > ancestors further back. were told a really big LIE, one they based their > life and counted on to be true? If this LIE unraveled before your eyes and > all that you thought was true collapsed and crumbled, leaving you and your > friends and family in dire straights, what would you do? Would you suicide? > Would you attempt to keep living like you did even though it is an > impossibility? Or, would you learn how to adapt? > > ADAPTATION is a big word for some folks. My thesaurus defines it as an > alteration, adjustment, acclimatization, modification, change. The BIG LIE > says that a corporate controlled industrial civilization is sustainable, > that it can continue to rape nature to provide us with life support with no > consequences to be faced, that it is the best and only proper way to live. > It is a LIE designed by the industrialists so that we would buy and consume > their products and work in their factories. The LIE is currently being > exposed by time and nature. > > The corporate controlled industrial civilization is crashing, running up > against the wall of population growth, diminishing natural resources, > environmental destruction, and internal corruption. Rome is falling and > those who relied on it are in dire straights. The truth is that no stimulus > package is large enough to replace what we're losing and restore what we > once knew. There are too many forces converging for that. Rather, we should > learn how to adapt, how to acclimatize to our emerging situation. We don't > have much time to act. The whole planet is experiencing the same thing. We > are not alone in our realization that we have been lied to. > > The consequences of past actions are knocking on at the door. Look around > you. Read the news. We see wild weather, polluted waters and tainted air, > and a collapsing economy built on non-sustainable practices. We see war, > murder, rape, pedophilia, and dying oceans, melting glaciers, rising waters. > We're not stupid. We can read the signs. Yet, most of us do not know what we > can do, how we can get out of this mess, and what should we build in place > of it. We have gathered here to seek (and possibly find) viable solutions. > We did not come here to argue the fine points, to divide ourselves with > political proclamations, or to revel in the horror of what is coming down. > We leave those topics to another time and place. Right now it is the > appropriate moment to consider our options. > > First, let us consider what we need for basic life support and how we might > provide for ourselves and our family and friends, maybe even our > neighborhood, community, nation, and the whole world. Yes, its good to think > globally but we need to act locally and the most local place to start is > with one's own life. Let's take a quick survey: > > 1) Who here walks instead of drives down the road? > 2) Who here composts their garbage? > 3) Who here composts their toilet waste? > 4) Who here recycles their wash water? > 5) Who here plants trees, berry bushes, wildflowers? > 6) Who here grows an organic food garden? > 7) Who here harnesses the wind? > 8) Who here harvests the sun? > 9) Who here knows how to maintain their health with natural foods, herbal > medicines, and massage? > > There is so much we can do. Yet, before we delve deeper into the > alternatives we should take a bit of time exploring some of the things we > can do to conserve energy in our homes: > > Efficiency is the key here. If we leave the lights on or keep the TV > plugged in (even when off), we are using more than we need. Did you know > that almost every electronic plugged-in appliance is draining power even > though it is not turned on? It is called a "phantom load". Lots of phantom > loads add up to a large steady power drain. Plug those electronics into a > plug strip and turn off the plug strip when the appliance is not being used. > > Turn off the lights you are not currently using. Do you really need to > light the whole room with a big bulb when reading a book or would a small > high intensity reading light conserve more power? Standard incandescent > bulbs waste power in the form of heat. Compact fluorescent bulbs make less > heat and are thus considerably more efficient than incandescents - unless > the incandescent is used for a short time (like in a closet) because > fluorescents take a bit more power to "fire up". The most efficient lighting > to date is a sulfur light. These use microwaves to stimulate sulfur to > produce light. These bulbs pump out light like miniature suns. The light > from one bulb is channeled to other locations via fiber optics. So far, > these are very expensive and are not available on the open market. The next > efficient light is an LED (light emitting diode). There are some great LED > flashlights on the market these days and the screw in version are just > starting to penetrate the mass marktplace. LEDS do not get hot, last almost > "forever", are hard to break, and use very little power. In my opinion, LED > lighting is the way to go. > > In a normal home, lighting takes considerable power but refrigeration takes > much more. Super insulate the refrigerator with 6" more insulation. Put the > compressor on top so that the heat from it rises away from the refrigerator, > not up through the cold box like standard models. With a front opening door, > every time the door opens the cold falls out. Use a model which opens like a > chest freezer. The most energy efficient location for a refrigerator (in the > northern hemisphere) is on the north (shaded) wall of the home close to or > in contact with the ground (which is 55 degrees F). Do not put a > refrigerator where the sun can shine on it! > Also, during the winter when water turns to ice, fill some jugs, let them > freeze, then put them inside your refrigerator. > > AC (alternating current) engines/motors/ compressors, including those in > refrigerators, are not as efficient as DC (direct current) models. DC > refrigerators usually operate at 12 volts and can be run directly off a > battery bank, which can be charged by solar electric panels (photovoltaics) , > wind generators, and microhydro units (which usually produce DC power). The > refrigerators mentioned above are "compression cycle" machines. They are > more efficient than the propane fired "evaporation cycle" refrigerators > found in RVs and in many off-grid homes. Solid state refrigeration can be > accomplished with Peltier Junction chips (some coolers which plug into > cigarette lighter sockets are available) but the are not very efficient. > Ultrasonic refrigeration (very efficient) is possible but not yet available > on the open market. > > Electric stoves, ovens, hair dryers, plug-in heaters, base-board heaters, > hot plates, or anything which uses electricity to heat a coil of wire are > very inefficient. Gas stoves are more efficient. Wood stoves work if you > have a steady wood supply. Yet, wood smoke is also polluting and you need to > plant more than you burn just to keep up. Solar energy is free. Consider > your options. If you need a clothes dryer, a propane or natural gas dryer is > better than an electric one. Try hanging the clothing in the sun on a line. > It will save you much power. > > Room heating should not be electric. A well-designed solar home that is > super insulated can get by quite well with a woodstove or a small propane or > natural gas powered heater to augment the sun's power when it is not shining > on the home. Super insulation is the key here. So is using an "air lock" > hallway (with two doors) to keep the cold from getting in. Air conditioners > are a huge drain on power. It is best to use the coolness of the earth > itself (55 degrees F.) to cool your home. It is easy to construct a simple > system of parallel pipes which run through the ground and into your home. > Outside air is drawn in through the pipes and is cooled by the earth. The > moisture in the outside air condenses in these pipes to produce distilled > water. This is called an "air well". During the summer, the home should be > shaded by trees. Homes which are bermed or built into the ground (earth > sheltered) are easier to cool and heat. > > Water heating can be made more efficient by switching to an on-demand > tankless style water heater which provides a steady stream of hot water for > as long as you keep the faucet open and there is fuel to power it. There is > running out of water because the tank is empty and no need to waste power > keeping a tank of hot water waiting for when you want it. Tankless heaters > make hot water as it is used and are available in propane and natural gas > models. Some brands have a solar connected model where the tankless doesn't > turn on if the incoming water from the solar collector is already hot > enough. Enterprising individuals have turned their old tank style heater > into a solar water heater by stripping off the outer casing and insulation, > painting the core tank stove black, and exposing it to the sun inside an > insulated box with a glass cover made of an old shower door. Other folks > have used coiled hose, PEX tubing or, if you can afford it, parallel runs of > copper pipe. > > Water use can be reduced in may ways. Don't let the faucet run when not in > use. Use misting shower heads and the ones which have a built-in button to > push to turn off the flow while scrubbing up. Wash water, if not > contaminated by harsh chemicals and old medicines poured down the drain or > by toilet water, can be piped into the garden to keep it watered instead of > down the drain, overburdening the aging sewage treatment infrastructure or > filling the septic tank. Other folks are recycling their water inside > greenhouses attached to their house, also acting as passive solar space > heaters. Wash water is also called gray water. Gray water should not be > mixed with the water which leaves your toilet bowl. This is called black > water. Gray water is sometimes used to flush toilets. Yet, is the flush > toilet such a great invention? Consider a composting toilet. With one of > those, coupled with a gray water system, you can not only disconnect from > the sewer lines and stop discharging into United States waters, you also end > up with rich compost for the flower garden. > > Cooking should be as efficient as possible. Solar box ovens (insulated > boxes with black interiors, a piece of thermal glass on the front, and a > reflector to focus more sunlight into the box) work great as long as the sun > is shining - even in the winter! Electric stoves should be avoided. If you > must use electricity for cooking, a microwave oven is more efficient than an > electric stove because it cooks faster. Natural gas or propane stoves are > much better. Steamed vegetables have more vitamins than over-boiled ones and > steaming saves a lot of power. The more raw food we eat the less cooking is > needed and the healthier we become. > > In the electronics world, small is better. A laptop computer uses far less > power than a desktop model. A small screened TV is more efficient than an > large one. AN MP3 players uses a tiny amount of power compared to a CD > player. Choose your appliances, electronics, and tools based on efficiency > as well as performance. Do you need your a VCR in your home or would it be > more fun to watch a movie with others in the community shelter? At the very > least, turn off the lights when they are not being used! Conservation starts > with awareness. If we are going to adapt to the changes we have to start by > learning to conserve nature's gifts. Remember: the more power we use the > more power we have to produce. > > We're not trying to live like primitives here. We value a high level of > peaceful and sustainable civilization. We simply realize that we can no > longer be supported by big business must now adapt to the changing > situation. Conservation on all levels is important. We need to do more with > less. We need to plan ahead. We need to take control of the situation and > show our neighbors how we did it. We need to step outside of the box, dare > to be different, and take personal responsibility for providing ourselves > with life support, including the energy we use. > > By now I hope you know that the grid, as it is currently constructed, is > not capable of handling the growing demand for energy. Huge storms bring the > grid to the ground. Rebuild is expensive. Rates are raised. Fuel sources are > hard to find and exploit. On top of that, many water delivery and sewage > treatment systems are old, antiquated, breaking down. The industrial level > infrastructure is in bad shape. Much of the groundwater is either tainted > with industrial and agricultural chemicals or has been or is being depleted. > Drought is becoming endemic in many regions. Deserts are spreading. > > Of course we wonder what we can do besides conserve and recycle our > resources. We need answers. Yet, while we may learn from others, the most > important thing is to implement what we learn on a personal level, to the > best of our ability. We need to take personal responsibility rather than > wait for our substitute parents (big government and big business) to do it > for us. Remember, Rome is in steep decline and cannot afford to keep us all > alive. In the Empire's eyes, more and more people are becoming expendable. > The support net is frayed and torn. The mothership is sinking. There are not > enough lifeboats. > > We need to build backyard arks, life supporting waste recycling > greenhouses, and renewable power systems. We need to build cooperative > networks of friends and family, cooperative buying clubs so we can get those > things we cannot produce ourselves or get from our neighbors - at a good > price, below retail. We can learn, once again, how to barter, trade, and > swap, or simply give our excess to those in need. We need to start our own > power production companies, organic farms, building materials recycling > centers, natural healthcare and disease prevention sanctuaries, and > encourage our local and regional governments to use their political clout to > bless and promote them. > > We need to get the media aware of the situation and working for the people > and not the BIG LIE. We need to put ourselves to work, pool resources, teach > classes, get personally involved in the school system, upgrading it so that > our children learn what is useful, not just what big government and big > business wants them to know. Practical skills need to be shared. > Grandmothers and grandfathers need to be questioned and asked to explain. > Folk knowledge needs to be recovered, recorded, and made into instructional > programs we can run on the Internet. We need art which shows us a positive > sustainable future, pictures of a re-greened environment, people living > sustainable ecovillage lifestyles, energy efficient long distant mass > transport bullet trains, electric vehicles for local travel, bike lanes, > walking paths, a rewriting of zoning ordinances to allow home scale > businesses. > > I'm not suggesting that we get rid of big business and it's industrial > prowness and employment opportunities. That would be foolish. I, for one, > enjoy and thrive in a high level of civilization. I just want to have more > control over my life and help big business clean up it's act. Every watt I > produce is one they don't have to. Every vegetable I grow and chicken I > raise does not have to be produced on a factory farm. Every drop of water I > catch in my rain barrel and cistern is another which I don't need to > purchase for the utilities. I can dig mini-ponds in my yard and line them > with recycled advertising tarps, maybe raise some fish, build a composter > from an recycled plastic barrel, a solar air heater from aluminum cans, and > run my gray water into the garden so that I don't overburden the public > sewer system and treatment plant. There is so much we can do, alone and > together. > > Let's take a short break and come back to this energy issue and discuss how > we might produce our own. We'll also revisit the topic of helping each other > out, working together cooperatively, and building sustainable community. Get > up and stretch. Take a breather. Relieve yourself and wonder where it is > going to and whether or not there is a better way to use our wastes. While > you are at it, consider where the power we are currently using comes from. > > > - 9c.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:46 am (PDT) Selvaraj, although I have not seen much of that from NASA, people like Terry and I have been doing this for a long time. Terry and I use different methods and approaches but to date there have not been many people who pass the test. It would take a pool of over 30,000 willing people over a period of time to find 100 who would be able to go off as a group, by themselves and last for any length of time. As individuals and families they can do ok for a number of years and may even be able to establish small villages or tribes. However, once it gets past 30 or so people things start falling apart. This does require a lot more studying and no one wants to really try until necessary. So we have to be prepared to go before we can really do such a study. There has to be a real belief that something will happen before people will get serious about thinking on the subject. I consider 100 people to be the smallest number of people necessary to survive. However it is necessary to have something like 278 unique strands of DNA to be able to maintain a viable community. This has been written about for almost 4000 years and you will find many references to such in history. Some are still enforced like you can not marry your brother or sister or your first cousin. Using the 100 person figure would have to require some definite rules of reproduction and a real family tree to keep track of who is who and what line they were from. So to actually answer your question: The thought is there but no one has had the resources to tackle such an undertaking for such reasons including necessity and to what purpose. John Wayne Smith In a message dated 10/17/2011 11:15:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sraj99@gmail. com writes: I have a question? Evidently there will be very few people who will have the necessary skills to run a 50% efficient CELSS all on their own. To make such a project a reasonable success, there must be at least a village with quite a few people having diverse skills (100 people?). I wonder whether NASA is conducting studies in group dynamics? Such information will be invaluable for setting up space habs. NASA could invest money in creating a 50% efficient eco-village to see how matters pan out. (It is worth keeping in mind that many tribal communities worldwide are already off grid and self sufficient - basically because they have few needs). Regards, Selvaraj - 9d.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:09 pm (PDT)
Ground Zero) Who here only consumes what they really need.
Conservation is the first step.
Rick H Parker
On 10/17/2011 9:39 AM, Patti wrote:
> 1) Who here walks instead of drives down the road?
> 2) Who here composts their garbage?
> 3) Who here composts their toilet waste?
> 4) Who here recycles their wash water?
> 5) Who here plants trees, berry bushes, wildflowers?
> 6) Who here grows an organic food garden?
> 7) Who here harnesses the wind?
> 8) Who here harvests the sun?
> 9) Who here knows how to maintain their health with natural foods, herbal medicines, and massage?
- 9e.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:11 pm (PDT) --- In andorprojex@ yahoogroups. com, sraj <sraj99@...> wrote: > > I have a question? Evidently there will be very few people who will have the > necessary skills to run a 50% efficient CELSS all on their own. To make such > a project a reasonable success, there must be at least a village with quite > a few people having diverse skills (100 people?). Maintaining our current systems here in the ecoark takes me about 15 minutes per day at the maximum and requires few skills, nothing that couldn't be taught to someone who was interested. If I stepped up food production (which I intend to do) I estimate that I might spend an hour per day (at most) maintaining the systems. It's really not very complicated: some plant trimming, some new seeds, food picking. The wind and PV systems run themselves. Every couple of months I water the batteries which takes about 15 minutes. During the winter, if there is a heavy snow fall, I have to use a broom on a pole to sweep the snow off the panels. This takes about 15 minutes. I'm 59 years old and have a very bad back (constant pain) but I can do this without a community. But, it would be nice to have a community of people working together because it's more fun that way. > > I wonder whether NASA is conducting studies in group dynamics? Such > information will be invaluable for setting up space habs. When BushCo "assumed the throne" nearly all funding for CELSS research was cut off and it has not been restored. The best studies in group[ dynamics come from the people living in Antarctica in close quarters. You might wish to look into that. - 10a.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:41 am (PDT)
Here are some prime candidates for home and community scale energy transformation:
1) SOLAR THERMAL - Sunlight contains an incredible amount of energy. When sunlight falls on a dark surface, that surface heats up. Trapping sunlight, heating something up, and storing that heat are what solar thermal is all about. Super insulated buildings can be heated by solar energy (as long as there is sunlight). Solar thermal systems can be divided into "passive" and "active". Passive systems have no moving parts. A black painted tank filled with water and exposed to sunlight is an example of a passive system. An active system has moving parts (blowers, pumps, valves, etc.). An example of an active system might be a rooftop mounted solar thermal panel filled with antifreeze (so that it does not freeze during the winter) that is connected to an indoor insulated water heater. There is a pump which pushes the antifreeze through a heat exchanger coil in the water heater (where the trapped solar heat is given over to the water) and back again to the rooftop solar thermal panel where it picks up more heat from the sun. Active systems tend to break down and should not be used where a passive system will suffice. Both active and passive systems can heat air, water, and even rock. Passively and actively heated solar building both use some sort of thermal storage system (water or rock) to trap excess solar heat and release it gradually over time, maintaining an even temperature indoors. Some people have even constructed solar thermal "heat engines" which turn sunlight into mechanical power to spin generators, pump water, and run drills, lathes, and fans. Solar ovens, cookers, and food driers are easy to build and cost effective to operate. Solar stills can turn brackish water into fresh. A solar water heater is a great way to save energy. Passive solar space heaters can be constructed from recycled glass and roofing metal or even aluminum cans. Solar water heaters are also easy to construct.
2) EARTH POWER - Below the frost line, the earth is about 55 degrees F. Tubes or pipes can be laid through the earth and air or water pumped through those pipes. This is called "geothermal" . During the summer this system can be used to cool a building. During the winter, this can be used with a "heat extractor" to provide space heating. If you are using a conventional propane or natural gas furnace or even a woodstove, the air used for combustion should come into the building through ground pipes, using the earth to preheat the air to 55 degrees F. When coupled with a solar thermal system, excess summer heat can be pumped/blown through these same pipes, heating the ground below the building and raising the ground temperature by a few degrees.
3) BIO-GAS - When organic animal and human wastes and garbage decompose in anaerobic conditions (without oxygen) they produce a mixture of gasses which contain a high proportion of burnable methane. Home scale methane production does not work since we do not produce enough waste. Community or farm scale systems, especially if there are many animals to provide manure, can be made to work. The gas is not very high quality and, when burned, does produce some pollution, similar to propane or natural gas. Natural gas is mainly methane.
4) BIO-DIESEL - By using emulsifying agents (usually chemicals) dirty fryer fats from restaurants can be recycled into bio-diesel and may be burned in diesel engines to run vehicles or even back-up electricity generators. Bio-diesel pollutes less than petroleum diesel fuel but still pollutes. Bio-diesel should not be made with food plants. High quality bio-diesel can be made from a variety of weeds or extracted from algae grown on sewage water.
5) ALCOHOL - Alcohol (with the proper government permits) can be made from a number of plants and their waste products. It can be burned in most internal combustion engines with slight modifications to the carburetor and the replacement of plastic tubing with metal. Alcohol combustion pollutes less than gasoline but still creates poisons which are exhausted into the atmosphere. Alcohol should not be made from food plants. There are many other sources.
6) SOLAR ELECTRICS - The proper term for this is called "photovoltaics" or PV. PV panels are composed of PV cells. Several panels wired together make up a PV array. PV must be pointed at the sun. Power production is reduced when the sunlight strikes the cells at an angle. PV cells are more efficient in cold weather. Commercial PV cells for home power production transform about 10% of the sunlight into electricity. There are experimental PV cells which have a much higher efficiency but they are either very expensive or not yet available. PV cells come in three basic types: amorphous, multi-crystalline, and single crystal. Single crystal is the longest lasting with the highest output. Commercial PV cells are not cheap but they do not make any noise or pollution while producing power. PV output is DC (direct current) and is usually stored in a battery bank. The battery bank can be tapped direct to provide power for pumps, electric motors, and compression cycle refrigeration (which runs more efficiently on DC than AC). An "inverter" may also be connected to the battery bank to produce 120VAC (standard wall current) with about a 5-10% reduction in efficiency. Electric systems which are not connected to the grid are called "off grid" or "stand alone". PV systems may also be "grid-tied", with or without a backup battery bank.
7) WIND POWER - Wind power can be either mechanical (like those old fashioned towers with the large bladed fans which were used on farms to pump water from wells) or electrical. Wind powered electric generators cost far less (watt per dollar) than PV systems and are hooked up to a battery bank or tied to the grid just like PV. If there is a steady and strong source of wind, wind power is a good option. Wind turbines need to be at least 50' above the ground. The closer to the ground (or house or trees) the more turbulence there is and the less power produced. Wind power works where there is enough wind at a fast enough speed. Wind charts are not precise enough. If you are interested in wind you need to take a wind survey on your site before investing. You also need to be very careful about which wind turbines you purchase. They are not all the same, the manufacturer' s claims are often inflated to make it seem like you will produce more power than you actually will, and, like all mechanical devices, wear down and need regular maintenance. There are two basic types of wind turbines, the VAWT (vertical axis wind turbine) and the HAWT (horizontal axis wind turbine). HAWTs typically produce about 50% more power than VAWTs. Just because it's spinning doesn't mean it's making any appreciable amount of power. Most power is produced in 20 mph or higher wind speeds. Wind turbines used to make electricity need to move fast because of the physics of electric power generation and the type of turbines in common use. Most small turbines are similar to car or truck alternators except they use permanent magnets instead of a secondary coil. One type of turbine called an "axial flux" is relatively easy to build from scratch and has the added bonus of making power at lower speeds.
8) WATER POWER - Microhydro units are used to tap flowing and falling water and convert that energy to electricity. Microhydro systems are hooked up just like PV and wind generators. If the flow and fall are strong and steady enough, microhydro is a great option for continuous power production. Another water trick is to use the falling water to turn a wheel to provide direct mechanical power to grind grain, spin fans, and power drills and lathes. A community with an abundance of falling water is lucky indeed! In recent years several companies have been working towards producing an in-stream turbine which works at slower speeds. In order to make electricity at slow speeds, with micro hydro or wind, a gearbox is used which adds another level of complexity and somewhat reduces power.
A note on grid-tied solar electric, wind, and microhydro systems:
The commercial electric grid, as it is currently configured, is designed to work on a steady-state base load and is not capable of handling large amounts of power from sources which vary in output according to the weather, such as solar electrics and wind. Microhydro is not so much a problem since it is usually based in a stream which has a steady flow. As it is, there are more than a few wind farms standing idle until the grid is reconfigured to handle their variable power input. The amount of power which a utility may purchase from a home energy producer is limited in most states. Some states have a net metering law which says the power company must buy your home generated electricity at the same rate as what they sell electricity to you. Other states purchase your power for wholesale rates and sell it back to you when you need it at retail rates. In either case one must be hooked to the grid through an expensive inverter which synchronizes your power with the alternating current of the grid, matching waves perfectly. In most cases people use more power than they can produce. So, that PV, wind, or microhydro system you are interested in will not overburden the grid. In fact, it will help the grid by relieving at least a part of your load. Every watt you make yourself is a watt that the grid does not have to produce.
A note on battery systems:
In grid-tied systems, unless you have battery backup, when the grid goes down, you lose power. This is a primary reason why many folks choose to build stand-alone off-grid systems. The weakest link in a stand-alone renewable energy system is the batteries. They must be deep cycle batteries, made to be deeply discharged and recharged many times. Car and truck batteries will not work. They are designed to deliver high current for brief times, such as when stating the vehicle. If they are deeply discharged they can never be fully charged again. Avoid them. Marine trolling motor batteries, golf cart batteries, and the kind of batteries designed to be used in electric vehicles, including cars, scooters, and wheelchairs are what we want. If you have access to military surplus, you might be able to score huge deep cycle batteries which are used to start jet engines. On the lower end of the cost scale, in heavy daily use, golf cart batteries will last anywhere between 4 and 8 years, depending on how well you treat them. For the most part all you need to do is maintain their float charge above 12.5 volts in a 12 volt system and water them about once per month with distilled water. There are batteries designed for renewable energy systems. They tend to be a bit more expensive but some are rated to last 30+ years. Battery banks can be wired for 12, 24, 36, or 48 volts DC. Small systems tend to be 12VDC. Larger systems may chose a higher voltage. Any time the power producing equipment is located far from the battery bank, higher voltages are used because there is a lower loss of power due to wire resistance in transmission
A note on wiring PV, wind, and micro hydrosystems:
Do not attempt to wire an alternative electric system without knowledge of how they work. In grid-tied systems the final connection must be made by a licensed professional. In any case one should do their wiring in alignment with the electric code, for safety reasons and to ensure a long life for your investment. There are specialized voltage regulators on the market designed to get the most out of your system and to maintain the proper level of charge in your battery bank. Cut-off switches are essential. So is proper grounding. Battery banks store power as DC (direct current). DC can be used directly if your home wiring is set up for it or, as most folks do, is changed to 120 volt AC by an inverter. High quality inverters are available on the market these days. Cheaper modified sine wave inverters will work but tend to produce power which is not as pure as the higher quality sine wave inverters. Your home electronics prefer quality power. Your inverter input must be at the same voltage as your battery bank. A 12V inverter cannot be hooked up to a 24V bank.
9) HYDROGEN - Hydrogen is burned with oxygen to produce heat and water vapor. There is no pollution in this reaction. When hydrogen is burned in open air there are some nitrogen oxides produced (very little). Most internal combustion engines, gas stoves, gas dryers, and gas refrigerators can be converted to burn hydrogen. There is another way to "slow burn" hydrogen called "catalytic combustion" in which hydrogen is consumed without a flame at the surface of a rare metal catalyst like platinum. Some space heaters are "catalytic heaters". Another way to burn hydrogen is in a fuel cell. Fuel cells use a catalyst and a series of membranes to combine hydrogen with oxygen to produce heat, electricity, and distilled water. Small scale fuel cells are just coming into the consumer marketplace and may be even used to power vehicles without pollution. Hydrogen can be used to enrich bio-gas to make it a more usable power resource. The trouble with hydrogen is that it does not exist on earth in any appreciable quantity - except when it is bound to another element. Water contains 2 hydrogen atoms with 1 oxygen atom. The trouble is that it takes more energy to split water into H and O than the energy one gets by burning the two to create water! In other words, if you already have the energy to split water, why not use it direct? On the other hand, if you have excess energy (such as summer sunlight), why not use that energy to split water? The subject of splitting water and the methods of doing so are being studied in detail by experts and inventors all over the world in order to prepare the way for a "hydrogen economy" which some people believe will take over at the end of the fossil fuel era. I hope so. We should look deeply at this technology.
One more thing about hydrogen technology. Much of the spent nuclear fuel from commercial reactors sits in water filled pits, disassociating the water into hydrogen and oxygen. Utility companies should be tapping this waste product. If this is channeled into a fuel cell, the fuel cell makes heat, electricity, and water. The water is then run back over the radioactive substance and the cycle continues. This is a "closed circuit system". If my sources are correct (the people who worked on this project), the Hubble space telescope has one of these closed systems on board. They call it a "99 year battery" because, every 99 years or so they must add a bit of water because, bit by bit, the water is converted to heat and electricity. Personally, I believe the massive amounts of nuclear waste currently on earth could be used in small "home scale" units, wrapped in lead with an unbreakable titanium hull. A licensed service person would inject water every hundred years and replace the radioactive screens every thousand years or so. But, that's for the future. Right now this technology is not a viable option for common use - mainly due to the social and legal, not technical, problems of working with nuclear waste.
Before we able to put the LIE to rest, that big government and even bigger corporations can care for us, there is major community work to do together. Don't wait for leaders. Take initiative. We need to organize, educate, and make some legal changes. In many areas laws need to be liberalized, health codes changed, and zoning codes amended to permit rooftop solar, backyard wind, gray water gardening, and human waste composting systems. Net metering of home made electricity needs to be instituted in every state. Some folks think that the whole grid needs to be owned by the people. Politics aside, we must remember that the whole process starts at home with what we do to save energy and produce it at home, in every way possible. We're talking about life support here and finding practical ways that we can take care of ourselves and our families, friends, neighbors, community, state, nation, and the living biosphere of this planet. The buck starts and stops at home.
Don't forget about the children. They are the ones who are inheriting the mess made by the BIG LIE. Where are the practical classes on self-sustaining lifestyles, renewable energy production, organic gardening, building wind generators in shop class, and so forth? We need to offer our services to the schools, get elected to school boards so we can help change the curriculum, find ways that students can become apprentices and learn a useful trade. The landscape is changing fast. The America we once knew is disappearing. The age of cheap energy and mass manufactured life support is passing. Children deserve the truth and the tools to make the transition. Make sure they have them. Put your heart into it. Love is nothing to be ashamed of. Help them help you go though the changes. I bet they have some great ideas.
We can do far more together than we can do alone. Consider the possibilities of forming cooperative buying clubs to purchase equipment at lower prices. There is power in numbers. Don't wait for a salesman to come to your door or set up shop down the street. Get active. Get on the Internet and research this stuff in detail. Network. Join existing groups. Start new groups. Connect with people and learn from each other. Most importantly, get outdoors where the weather actually is. Participate in nature's processes. A major part of the BIG LIE is that it can protect you from nature, harness it to do it's bidding. As Rome falls these jobs are falling into our laps, whether we like it or not.
ADAPTATION is not an easy process but it is the only one which works when the world goes mad and empires fall to dust. To ADAPT is to become a steward of nature. Stewardship is the profession we need to prepare for, the one for which humanity was originally intended. Whether we rise or fall to the occasion depends upon free will, conscious choice, and physical action. Fence sitting is not a viable option. Resisting the changes is foolhardy. Fighting the flow is suicide. The BIG LIE is collapsing. It is time for humanity to pick up the pieces, reconfigure them, put ourselves to work, start cottage industries, create jobs on a local level making the equipment we need. Humanity needs to mature, grow up and take responsibility for itself. We, the people, need to care for one another, pool resources for mutual aid and support, and do it ourselves at home - or mark civilization up as another failed experiment in the long forgotten history of the world.
- 11.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:42 am (PDT) Mixed: Saturday, April 2nd, 2005 In search of a strong mortar to make a thin shelled (½") wall and roof material for the planned Faerie Hill Ecoark I made 8 test samples of various mortar mixes using powdered ingredients mixed with enough water to make a thick paste in a plastic yogurt cup. While mixing it was clear that the samples containing a higher percentage of clay were much creamier in consistency (a good thing when spreading over large areas). I used an orange-red clay from the Faerie Hill excavation and a white fine mortar sand. The lime is dry hydrated and the Portland cement is a standard mortar grade. Water is tap. Each mortar sample will be allowed to cure for 1 week at which time I'll provide basic test results: #1: 1 part clay, 1 part sand, 1 part lime, 1 part portland #2: 2 parts clay, 2 parts sand, 1 part lime, 1 part portland #3: 2 parts clay, 2 parts sand, 2 parts lime, 1 part portland #4: 1 part clay, 2 parts sand, 1 part lime, 1 part portland #5: 1 part clay, 2 parts sand, 2 parts lime, 1 part portland #6: 1 part clay, 3 parts sand, 2 parts lime #7: 1 part clay, 2 parts sand, 2 parts lime #8: 4 parts sand, 2 parts lime, 1 part Portland note: None of these samples contain any reinforcing fibers which, when used in thin shelled walls and roofs, are highly desirable and provide much greater strength and prevent cracking., I left the fibers out of the samples in order to test the mortars in a non-reinforced "worst case situation". LONGER TERM RESULTS Friday, February 2nd, 2006 The test samples above have now laid outside in their open topped recycled yogurt cup containers for 5 months, fully exposed to the weather - including many freeze-thaw cycles. Each sample had a wooden popsicle stick inserted in the top of the sample while the mix was wet. Here are the results: #1: minimal fine-grained top/exposed surface fragmentation, hard uncracked cylinder mass, stick firmly implanted - excellent strength and durability rating - I would dare to use it in an outdoor stucco or casting application #2: considerable exposed surface fragmentation/ flaking up to ½" into the sample, uncracked cylinder mass below the fragmentation, stick firmly implanted - I would not recommend building anything exposed to the weather with this but it might make a nice reddish internal plaster #3: same as #2 but surface only fragmented to ¼" and that was along the edges rather than the whole surface as in #2 #4: medium level of exposed surface fragmentation to a maximum depth of 1/8", hard uncracked cylinder mass, stick firmly implanted - I still wouldn't recommend it for outdoor exposure #5: minimal exposed edge chipping to a depth of 1/16", very strong uncracked cylinder mass, stick firmly implanted - I'd use it outdoors with reservations #6: complete soggy sandy mush, dissolution of all primary bounding - worthless as a building material #7: same as #6 - worthless #8: not much better than #6 and #7 although there is some adhesion in the mass and the particles are in flakes rather than like sand as in #6 and #7 - worthless Conclusions: High clay and sand based mixes are unstable without the addition of Portland cement to the mixture. Clay/sand mixes require at least 50% of the mix to be a lime/Portland combination. The strongest test sample was #1: 1 part clay, 1 part sand, 1 part lime, 1 part Portland. The next strongest was #5: 1 part clay, 2 parts sand, 2 parts lime, 1 part Portland. note: Besides the above mentioned samples I also weathered a series of chopped recycled Styrofoam/Portland/ sand/lime mixtures, all of which show no visual adverse effects to the exposure, seemingly retaining complete structural integrity and actually appearing to have become stronger in time. This includes the ones with the highest concentration (50%) of Styrofoam. Suggestion: I would love to see a series of test samples cast with the addition of wet sawdust and/or other waste materials. Anyone game? Terry Ryan Kok biostar_a@yahoo. com http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/andorproje x - 12.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:43 am (PDT) Please take a few minutes to wade through the following 9 paragraphs and see if you can come out the other side with a better understanding of how we could be living here on Earth, even with a collapsing biosphere. Have we run out of room on this planet? There are those who believe we have reached the overpopulation point. There is plenty of hard evidence that we may have done so: crammed cities, rampant poverty in rural as well as urban areas, malnourished people spread all over the less developed parts of the world, the whole situation complicated by any number of extreme weather events: drought, flood, wind storms, earthquakes, etc. and human caused environmental degradation, soil depletion, and more. It is becoming increasingly hard to provide the masses of humanity with clean water, nutritious food, waste treatment, and, in high pollution zones, fresh air to breathe. The true picture is not pretty, especially if one looks at the poorest places on the planet. Climate change is going to complicate matters even further with an increase in unpredictable and extreme weather events including a steady rise in worldwide sea levels and the submergence of highly populated lowlands. Inland aquifers are being sucked dry after being poisoned by agricultural chemicals and industrial toxins. Deserts are expanding. Wars are proliferating. Oil is becoming more rare and expensive. We're running out of power. Given the current data, prospects for a peaceful and abundant future do not look too good unless you are one of the few wealthy elite with the means to pay any price to purchase the remaining resources. It doesn't have to be this way. The future does not have to be grim. We do not have to scramble for scraps if we create a practical and affordable solution for dealing with the very real problems we actually face. Most thinking people know how bad it already is and can imagine how bad it might become if we do not change course and quickly. What is this course change? That's the real question. Does it have something to do with massive population reduction and a return to some sort of primitive existence? Should we attempt a mass migration to Mars? The answer is much simpler than that. We need to recycle everything. There is plenty of matter available on Earth to make life support miracles happen. The trick is in how we manipulate and shape it and for what purpose. Guns will not keep anyone alive if there is nothing left to hunt. I wouldn't make more of those. Cell phones can be great communication devices yet I wouldn't try eating one. I'd much rather step into a high intensity food production greenhouse and chomp down on a carrot than attempt to feed on sawdust and old shoe leather. Get my point? We need to make something new which can get us out of this mess. The greenhouse is good. It's part of the solution. Tweek it up a bit and that greenhouse can do more than provide food. It can turn dirty water clean, eliminate organic wastes, and provide fresh oxygen-rich air. Wouldn't that be nice? Rich people might not care because they already have those things in abundance. Poor people are in dire need and the dwindling middle class is close on their heals. Whatever the economic case, remember this word: CELSS (Closed Ecological Life Support System). It is a NASA-derived term for a biological based machine which could keep a colony alive on Mars. I think CELSS has direct application here on Earth as well. We have a lot of people in dire need of sustainable life support. I actually believe there is more than enough room on this planet for the current population, even an increase, if we employ CELSS to process our stale air, wash water, and organic wastes, using these "natural resources" in conjunction with nature and natural processes to provide us with the essentials of life. In fact, if we have a mind to, we can build life-supporting CELSS out of recycled materials, or mass manufacture them in every style from the developing world economy model to the middle class add-on edition. Custom jobs could be done for the rich and famous. There is a nice side effect from employing CELSS. Once people start using them on a regular basis, they stop polluting and otherwise disrupting the surrounding environment which then regenerates! Yes, nature has a few tricks up her sleeve. She can perform them if we aid her in the process. The first thing we need to do to help the situation is to stop using Mother Earth like she was our personal milk mom. Aren't we're supposed to be adults here? The mark of a mature person is their ability to care for their needs without having to run home to mommy`s breasts. If I was an ambassador from the Intergalactic Federation sent to Earth to determine whether or not humankind had an advanced enough civilization to merit official entrance into the Federation, I would have to say, "Not yet. They still haven't learned how to grow up and care for themselves". We could do so. "We will transform the Earth from the garbage pit of civilization into its rightful place as the breadbasket of the solar system, plant propagator, green machine, exporter of fine food to the Moon, Mars, and world's beyond." - the Alchemist The task before us is to design and construct small scale "closed loop" ecosystems which are capable of supplying all our basic life support needs on Earth. Advanced versions can be sent to the Moon or Mars once we've field tested and perfected CELSS. For now, I would be happy to have one in my yard. Just think of the food, water, and sanitation bills I wouldn't have to pay! Now, don't get me wrong. If you love to garden outdoors, by all means continue to do so. Mother Earth loves to be cared for. I'm not talking about having to live sealed in a bubble. Yet, wouldn't it be nice if your home was outputting oxygen, food, and clean water while you were outside taking it all in? Instead of sucking it all up we could be putting back more than we consume. That is a mark of a highly advanced civilization worthy of Federation membership. Can you help? We're not asking for money. Most of all, we need your accumulated knowledge and research capabilities. There are many questions on the particulars of CELSS operations. I've built a couple of human scale CELSS-tech "test beds" to see for myself what works and does not. I've studied the literature, read the science papers, discussed the details with other researchers, lectured on the topic, presented my own papers, and am now asking if you would like to be involved in the process of perfecting CELSS. There is a whole planet in need of upgrading. It helps if we are working together cooperatively. More information can be found in this group: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/andorproje x where people interested in sustainable systems and communities gather to cooperatively "think tank" viable solutions. We hope you can join us there. Sincerely evolving, Terry R. Kok Email me direct at biostar_a@yahoo. com - 13a.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:44 am (PDT)
CELSS (Closed Ecological Life Support System) is a "living machine" which, ideally, provides it's inhabitant(s) with 100% of their life support (organic food, fresh oxygen-rich air, clean water) by recycling the waste products generated by the inhabitant(s) and by the CELSS itself. We call that "closing the loop". As it has been said, "the devil is in the details". CELSS is relatively new in the world. Now, of course, the planet-wide life supporting biosphere it a large scale CELSS. By studying what nature does to recycle we may apply these principles on a much smaller personalized scale. It helps to design for the worst possible scenario in the harshest environments (like Mars) and then it becomes easier and simpler to build robust systems for kinder climates. So, to start, imagine we have landed on a barren planet with no air, water, or food to eat except what we brought with us. Here's what we have to work with (this can get gross):
MATERIAL INPUTS
1) HUMAN BODY: feces, urine, farts, belches, vomit, snot, spit/saliva, phlegm, sweat, tears, earwax, milk, sperm/semen, smegma, menstrual blood, blood, pus, nail clippings, hair, dead skin, water vapor, CO2, trace gasses, heat, medicine residues, and (if someone dies) dead bodies and body parts
2) PLANTS: unused biomass, garbage, plant oils, O2, CO2, ethylene and other trace gasses, water vapor
3) ANIMALS: much the same as what humans output
4) MATERIALS & PROCESSES: oils, soaps, worn out clothing (composed of natural fibers/dyes only), laundry & wash (gray) water, out-gassings (solvents/trace gasses from materials used in the CELSS shell construction and other items inside the CELSS).
That's what we have to work with in the "hermetically sealed version". Of course, on Earth or anywhere there are some useful outside resources, our task would be easier. Yet, if we design the hermetically sealed version, I`m sure, on the way to the final design, we will cover just about any condition or environment we can imagine. While we are brainstorming this "ultimate CELSS" we need to be aware of the amount of energy required to make the whole thing work. The less energy required the better. Also, technologically complex systems tend to break down faster than simple systems. We adhere to the engineering principle of KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). We don't want to design anything which requires a lot of repairs, maintenance, or spare parts. The number of human hours spent per day keeping the system fully operational should also be considered. We're not into this to work ourselves to death. We shouldn't have to spend more than a hour or so a day doing our chores in an optimal system. Remember, we're on a planet's surface so we have gravity on our side. In space we would have to spin the whole thing to simulate gravity. For now, let's stay grounded and focused on the transformations.
The MATERIAL INPUTS listed above must be transformed into the following:
1) nutrient rich water and soil for plants, fungi, and symbiotic micro-organisms
2) CO2 and trace gas-rich air for the plants, fungi, and symbiotic micro-organisms
3) clean water for humans and animals
4) oxygen rich air with few trace gasses (ethylene, methane, carbon monoxide, and other exotics) for humans and animals
5) continuously and regularly producing organic food supply for humans and animals
Get the picture? What goes around comes around. There is a dynamic relationship between humans, animals, plants, fungi, and symbiotic micro-organisms. What we are trying to do is optimize this relationship by building containment vessels which provide optimal conditions for each of the above. We want to make everyone and everything involved very comfortable and in a state of being nurtured at all times. We also want to do this in a way which prevents pathogens from thriving. We're aiming for a high oxygen level (aerobic) conditions throughout the CELSS. Anaerobic conditions (such as found in septic systems) are to be avoided because they breed disease and poisonous gasses like hydrogen sulfide (rotten egg odor) and methane. Plants out-gas ethylene which is, at certain concentrations, a growth inhibitor for the plants. It too needs to be converted or a hermetically sealed system will die.
How large should a fully operational CELSS be? As small as possible and small is possible. Here are some optimistic figures from the CELSS life support research community:
ESTIMATED GROW SPACE REQUIRED PER PERSON
(may be stacked into multiple levels for more efficient operation)
14 m2 - Gitalson
56 m2 - Bios3
20-30 m2 - Cullingford & Schwatekopf
13-50 m2 - Bugsbee & Salisbury
56.9 m2 - Oleson & Olson
8-20 m2 - MacElroy & Averner
15-20 m2 - Eckhart
24 m2 - Hoff
15 m2 - Vasilyew
As you can see, the above figures are tiny compared to the amount of space the average human being requires for life support in both hunter/gatherer and agriculture- based civilizations. Since the Earth's "carrying capacity" is already exceeded because of the rapidly expanding human population, anything we do to reduce an individual's "footprint" (space/resource required to keep a person alive) is a step in the correct direction. Lab work (NASA Ames) has already proven that all the air, water, and food for one person can be grown in a 16' x 16' space under optimal conditions with controlled atmosphere, temperature, lighting, and nutrients. Of course this was a highly engineered "hydroponics" style system which required considerable electricity for the lighting, pumps, and climate control plus an outside source of plant nutrients. So, it cannot really be called a CELSS but it sure is an encouraging experiment. I bet we can do pretty good together too!
That's enough for the moment. Read through the above a few times and start dreaming of how you might turn each of the MATERIAL INPUTS into what we need to get in return. If you have any ideals fleshed ot in some detail, please share them with the group. My job here is to facilitate the "think tanking" and keep us on course to building a functioning CELSS. I'm going to be poking and prodding so don't take it personally when I question you input or put a new twist into the puzzle. Doing so is part of my job facilitating this group. One thing I'm going to be stressing is INTEGRATING FUNCTIONS. If one piece of hardware can do 3 things simultaneously, I'm probably going to suggest it.
Looking forward to working with you all! - Terry Ryan Kok (aka: Jade)
- 14.
-
Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:46 am (PDT)
WATER FLOW LOOPS
Wash water and urine are mixed and channeled into grow beds, via bottom-laying perforated pipe, where various micro-organisms, fungi, and higher plants break down and convert soap oils and waste fats, food particles, dead skin, and urine into an organic food supply, fresh water (via plant transpiration and soil bed evaporation) , and oxygen rich air. Human feces, fingernail and hair clippings, plant trimmings, and organic garbage are composted. The finished compost is used to fertilize the grow beds. Fresh water is condensed out of the air by a ground loop (air well) dehumidifier and the water collected goes into the clear water tank then is UV or O3 sterilized for potable use. As the microbes, fungi, and plant roots are proven to be very efficient in filtering the organics and nutrients out of water, any water which makes it from the gray water entrance point (high point of the bed) can be stored in the white water tank located at the lowest end of the grow bed. This water can be RO (reverse osmosis) or otherwise multi-filtered and the resulting clean water channeled into the clear water tank, to aquaculture tanks, and/or to animals as their drinking water. If aquaculture tanks are employed the waste water from the tanks is mixed with the gray water from the hab and channeled into the grow beds, as above. If such an aquaculture loop is employed the grow beds need to be sized to accommodate the extra waste water.
AIR FLOW LOOPS
There is a physical separation between the greenhouse portion of the CELSS and the human hab section. Stale CO2 rich air from the hab is sucked (via fan) out of the hab through the toilet seat down (with a side effect of no smells coming from the composter) through the upper composter chamber which encourages rapid oxidation and then through the lower composter chamber where composted organic materials (feces, garbage, plant clippings) are dried by the air flow. The lower chamber air flow is increased by the addition of fan-driven warm air from the dehumidifier condenser coils. The CO2 enriched air exits the composter and converges with a fan driven air stream from the greenhouse which contains not only oxygen but also the plant produced and growth inhibiting gas "ethylene". This combined air flow is channeled up through the soil/grow beds from a point just above gray water level. It is possible to configure the gray water pipe in the grow beds so that it also handles this air flow. Soil microbes and fungi in the soil strip the air flow of trace gasses (including ethylene) , helping with the breakdown of gray water (seeping upward through capillary action), and reducing oxygen in the air flow to CO2 which, in turn, leaves the surface of the grow bed and is delivered to the plant leaves which, through photosynthesis, convert the CO2 to O2. The purified greenhouse air then s split into three flows: one circulates back through the soil/grow beds (SBR: Soil Bed Reactor). Another flow goes through the cooler/condenser/ dehumidifier, where it is stripped of excess moisture, into the Hab. The third air flow/loop is warm moist greenhouse air through an air well buried under the SBR, where excess heat is stored in thermal mass and moisture condensed out of the air flow, with the cooled dry air passing through the dehumidifier condenser coils and on to the lower chamber of the composter.
ANIMAL PRODUCTION LOOPS
This is where it gets complex, for several reasons. If there are animal byproducts and elimination wastes to compost in a CELSS, then there can be a loss of fixed nitrogen in the system using a fast-oxidation style composter as indicated above. In a vegan or vegetarian style CELSS this is not a problem since there is very little fixed nitrogen in the compost. Most of it enters the grow beds via the urine. On the other hand, in the case of animals, Rodale style slow composting is required in the system and the hab to greenhouse air flow as described above needs to bypass the slow process composter and head straight to the grow beds as described in the water flow paragraph. One of the side benefits of the slow compost process is that it mates well with vermiculture (worm growing) which can both provide a food source for either fish or poultry and a valuable source of plant nutrients when spread on the plant beds. Discussion is needed on whether or not poultry should be allowed to free range within the greenhouse which is good for keeping insect pests at bay but adds the potential problem of contaminating the white water which exits the gravity fed slow flow (from end to end) grow bed. If this water is RO filtered and fed to poultry, aquaculture, or other animals, it might be fine but I wouldn't channel it into the clear water tank discussed in the water flow paragraph.
GREENHOUSE CONFIGURATION
As was stated above, the greenhouse section and the hab need to be separated. Summer solar heat needs to be controlled. Evacuating the air from the greenhouse breaks the air and water flow loops and we no longer have a CELSS which supplies us with fresh air and water for drinking and washing. Excess heat and moisture can be transferred and stored in an air well and thermal mass heat storage area buried under the greenhouse, possibly the entire CELSS (including hab). We have touched on the idea of making mechanical power from the hot air via a stirling heat engine and/or electric power from solid state peltier junction thermoelectric "heat pump" chips. Both of those concepts need further investigation. It is also clear that the grow beds in the greenhouse might need to be stacked to save space, that there needs to be a built-in trellis system for climbing plants, lower growing plants need to be in the front (sun facing side), medium height plants in the center, and tall plants in the rear of the greenhouse. If aquaculture is employed some plants might be grown in floating platforms on the top of the aquaculture beds. If the greenhouse is partly buried (pit style), extreme temperatures in the greenhouse can be better moderated. If the greenhouse is constructed with a shading overhang, some of the summer heat can be avoided at the expense of slightly reducing plant photosynthesis. If light tubes are used to channel light into a fully buried greenhouse there is a photosynthesis penalty to pay as well. Photosynthesis periods can be extended through the use of auxiliary lighting with the best candidates seeming to be sulfur lighting or select spectrum (red/blue/green) LED lighting. Of course, the more electricity we consume the more power we need to make.
Intelligent, well thought-out comments and perspective are welcome!
|
No comments:
Post a Comment
OK restart and I’m doing it right now, everything‘s gonna be clear as can be and if you have any questions get a change resolved immediately ... everybody’s got to carry their own weight I’m gonna make this happen; it’s gonna happen really fast!
Trust God
Thanks Jesus,hold on tight!